Chris Goosen: Welcome to the cloud architects podcast, a
podcast about cloud technology and the people using it.
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Warren du Toit: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode
of the cloud architects. We have to really cool guests with us
today from ignite
Rick Claus: cloud architects.
Warren du Toit: Yeah, yeah, cloud architects. Patch and
switch, welcome to the show.
Joey Snow: Thanks for having us
Warren du Toit: The Living Legends.
Joey Snow: Sure.
Nicolas Blank: Or legendary at least if you prefer
Joey Snow: dairy probably
Nicolas Blank: dairy, dairy. Is this an allergy show?
Joey Snow: allergy free zone?
Warren du Toit: allergy free lactose free.
Nicolas Blank: Safe Zone and too I had
Rick Claus: my almond milk latte earlier today. I'm all set.
Joey Snow: Oh, nice. Nice.
Warren du Toit: That's fantastic. And how's your week
been?
Joey Snow: It's been busy but it's been fantastic. getting a
chance to see everyone see the community the MVPs the our
customers I still have meetings left to do Really? Wow. I've
dinner tonight with corporate partners that I managed so yeah,
it's it's it's been busy.
Rick Claus: It's been kind of crazy having a maintain your day
job plus also all the key aspects Oh, yeah, the event
itself, like joy. I also have some, some meetings besides it
recording podcast with folks like you, with the customers and
also an evening meeting as well too. So,
Nicolas Blank: but we aren't under oppression that you just
your full time job is to be on camera.
Rick Claus: You'd be surprised.
Joey Snow: nobody really wants to see that actually a couple
times here. Alright, that's enough.
Warren du Toit: So then what technically is your job titles?
But what is it? What do they call you?
Rick Claus: So I'm actually called a cloud advocate lead. So
I built a team of seven people that are smarter than me, that
go off and create amazing contents that is in demand by
our customers and by our partners, and by the community
online that cover a variety of topics. And my particular team
is focused on the operations side of Azure, for the IT pro
audience and for the architects audience, for architecture,
primarily VMs but then also talking a bit about Kubernetes
and containers and future looking and then also a bit in
the identity space. Security space as well. But then we also
handle the modernization of on premises as well. A lot of our
customers, the majority of the customers that are out there are
still very much having an on premises focus. And we're trying
to get them modernize, they can start to take advantage of some
of the goodness that is inside of the Azure world.
Joey Snow: I'm a Senior Program Manager in the identity team. So
I work in the Azure Active Directory team. And what I do is
I have inside of the engineering team, we have a customer and
partner experience team, which is designed basically to help us
get feedback back to our engineering team faster, and
help our customers get deployed and to be successful. customers
and partners as well. So I manage a group of partners that
help our customers get our product deployed, get managed
services built around them, help get them secure. All around
identity in Azure Active Directory.
Nicolas Blank: We love your world. We ready. We had. Yeah,
we had Elisabeth Olsen on early on the show. Yeah, and second
year in a row
Joey Snow: and one of those absolutely nothing. I can add to
this podcast.
Nicolas Blank: Except that Rick promise does that by you
exceptionally good looks you'd balance everything out.
Rick Claus: Absolutely. Yeah. At least his face for radio.
Joey Snow: Yeah, I do I completely have a face for radio
100%
Warren du Toit: Yeah, your team. Your team is the cloud. The
cloud advocate teams are incredible.
Nicolas Blank: Yeah, we spent some time with him on the road
and they're amazing.
Warren du Toit: Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Last year and in in Hong
Kong. We got to mess around with
it was good fun.
Unknown: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Rick Claus: Yeah. So biggest fun this so this year we've expanded
kicking off starting tomorrow, which is Saturday when we're
recording this. I'm flying to Paris and we're kicking off at
night the tour 30 plus stops around the world this time
double the number stops almost. And my team will be at least one
or two of my team will be at every single city stuff to be a
luxury of coverage. So we have a consistently high level of
content and also high level of engagement. So, if you look up,
Microsoft Ignite the tour, you'll see the cities they're
free event you can go off and subscribe to go off to and show
up in your local city. It's mostly international tour.
There's only I think three or four cities in the US. Primarily
international for China. Yes, there's definitely more in
China, Tokyo, Japan. And I'll be in Beijing in December. I want
to never been to Beijing before. Yeah, I'll be fine.
Nicolas Blank: Yeah, I'm on my way to Shanghai right after this
is the first time ever to Shanghai as well. Awesome.
Really, really? Looking forward to that?
Rick Claus: Yeah. Yeah, very cool stuff.
Nicolas Blank: So let's talk about a topic just for a little
bit. Oh, we know
Rick Claus: we have topics.
Joey Snow: I thought I was just just here to chit chat,
Warren du Toit: because it's ties in nicely to the
announcements that last week. So if we have to look, one of the
big announcements inside of Agile was Arc. Yep. And that's
multi cloud on prem. The whole thing. What do you guys thoughts
on that?
Nicolas Blank: Let's just define Arc quickly for people who don't
know what that is. And go and go.
Rick Claus: See it. This is kind of a test to see how the message
was received by someone other than Microsoft for that it was
given. So I am curious.
Warren du Toit: So it. So arc is the ability to manage devices
and servers and vdis and containers and Kubernetes data.
So workloads that aren't necessarily inside of Azure. So
they can be in AWS, they can be on premises, and they can also
help you move and manage those workloads as well. And the
biggest thing about Arc is that it's free. When you think about
what Amazon is charging Amazon, which I think they're charging
somewhere in the region of like $8,000 a month per Kubernetes
cluster, whatever the case may be, is, where's free,
Nicolas Blank: Joey I know that I just saw a bit of a little bit
Rick Claus: It worked.
The messaging works.
So it's, it's a, it's an architecture that allows you to,
if you think about it in the in the Agile world internally in
engineering, and I think we talked about this publicly to I
should probably figure that out for I say it. We talked about
resource providers, right. So the different resource providers
to be able to spot up resources inside of Azure as an example.
we're extending that to also not have resource providers that can
work in different locations. Because in case you didn't know,
other clouds are pretty protective about their stuff.
And they don't expose any API's that expose anything the outside
world, they want you to use their management of monitoring
tools, yeah, or for you to buy a third party service to go in and
to do those different management and stuff. So we're basically
now able to go in and to start to bubble up stuff. You know,
the first level of things that gonna be going on are going to
require some level of them and have an install. Yeah, there's
other areas. So you have to put some stuff on the Kubernetes
hosts to be able to go off the nodes and the Management nodes,
you have to be able to go in and put in a hybrid resource
provider for on premises machines, but then they appear
as resources inside of Azure. And then once they're inside of
Azure as a resource, then all the goodness that is inside of
Azure can take place. And you can have log analytics take
place, you can have security recommendations take place, you
can have monitoring alerts and performance alerts take place
record and
Warren du Toit: upgrade Kubernetes even straight from
the panel.
Rick Claus: Yep. So so the the capabilities are being laid out,
and they'll be continuing to evolve as they go. But it was a
pretty substantial viewpoint that we gave this earlier in the
week with the initial keynote. I think it was Gabe Gable gave one
minority source a Monroe or Malloy. It's been Ryan, I think
it is. I should know this because I said hello on the
first day he joined Microsoft. Back in the day from Colorado,
he did a phenomenal demo about how arc is gonna be going off
and working.
Joey Snow: I think one of my favorite components of arc and
again, it's not a single thing, right? Yeah. It's a set of it's
a set of tech Everything you have that allow things is the
ability to do Policy and Governance. So basically, it
allows you to leverage some of the configuration security
configuration and governance of the server is very, I mean,
everybody probably knows Group Policy. There are people in this
world that have on their resume. I'm a group policy expert. And
they know how to do that. You can think of some of the
components of arc and managing and these policies is kind of
like a group policy. This is the next 20 years. Yeah, so for the
past 20 years, we've been doing group policy on premises, right?
So you can think of this and, and, and mostly on the server
side, as that's, that's how you're going to manage those
configurations. And you can take some of the the practices that
we already have, when you spin up Azure VMs and some of those
things and and apply those same policies in a very consistent
manner to resources regardless of where those resources live.
Yeah, and is really just kind of this next step. As we move
toward we talked multi cloud and multi cloud can exist on
premises as well.
Nicolas Blank: What about my on premises VMware estate?
Rick Claus: Initially, we're looking at doing it from a VM
inside of the host configuration, right? We're not
looking at the individual lower level fabrics at this point in
time. It's a natural extension. Again, I don't want to say any
for looking statements, they don't have the details to be
able to pry out of me, which is good. But if I look at it, I
just see a VM as a VM as a VM. I don't care where it is.
redeliver don't at this time, have any kind of inter lower
level knowledge of what's happening down below. Until you
start going into things like our migration tools. Our migration
tools do have the ability to go in to take a look at the
underlaying v cloud platform,
Warren du Toit: which has also been completely redone, updated
data and yeah, this
Rick Claus: week, don't ask me questions that one there as I
haven't read that one yet.
There's a Book of news in case you're wondering
Nicolas Blank: about that. Yeah.
Rick Claus: The Book of news is available for download from the
news.microsoft.com website that lists off. And you were saying
the Table of Contents how many page Long's remember,
Joey Snow: I think I want to say it was 14 or 15 pages, just the
Table of Contents? Yes,
Rick Claus: it was insane. And then it has the details of all
the different functions and features that we announced this
or rather, the solutions that we've announced, we no longer do
the functions and features thing anymore.
Nicolas Blank: But How exciting is that I have a virtual
machine, which could be on just about anything could be VMware,
it could be on open stack, it could be on whatever. And I can
see it in portal and I can report an instrument on it.
Rick Claus: To me, that's going to be invaluable. I mean, the
customers that I've seen, I talked with as well, as I
mentioned, a lot of people than in the space that I work in with
modernization are very much in a now I'm starting to look at the
cloud. I mean, in your consultancies, working much more
cloud forward, you're dealing with a lot of customers that are
very much cutting edge and wanting to be there. Now we're
starting to see that happen. first level of the curve has
gone and coming and they're there and they buy into it. Now
we've got this big massive wave coming behind them that are now
starting to be able to come forward and want to want to know
what to do. So yeah, the the ability to include them and have
them visible inside the inside the portal, as you mentioned,
the able to put policy against them and our back against them
and stuff like that. The ability to install the hybrid agent on
the different machines, it's going to be very powerful. And
as you mentioned, the very beginning of all this, it's not
just VMs yet VMs is obviously where 80% of our customers are
going to be right now for what they're comfortable with working
with net new development or or modernization of existing
workloads that are being reimagined off of VMs into
something more compact, are going to be looking at
containers to reduce is the current winner in that space.
And then also potentially re architect and looking at even
avoiding Kubernetes and going straight to a microservices
architecture and said all that's coming down the road, but more
and more people are looking at how can I get immediate value
now? using something like arc Using the hybrid RP and other
things like that, to put all the stuff inside of one, one spot,
it sounds marketing, but, you know, one pane of glass, the
ideas all in one spot.
Nicolas Blank: It's like the show's done, we can leave. Okay,
Joey Snow: great talking, ever done.
Warren du Toit: Now we can go back to what we were originally
talking about.
Joey Snow: But But listen, you know, when we talk about the
cloud, it was interesting I had a conversation with Aaron
chapel. And and it's, it's kind of the the it comes in waves,
right? And you look it's like, okay, we're going to do this
thing on prem, then you move to the cloud, and then you're
expanding out beyond clouds. And then there may come a time where
you eventually have to come back down again. Yes, right. But you
need to still be able to treat those those resources if that as
if they are a true cloud, scalable resources and all the
things that they were working on and Azure and the announcements
that they made around that the arc stuff this, this ignite,
that's exactly what they're doing. So it's it's not so much
wear anymore. And it's just using that methodology.
Rick Claus: Yeah, I think there was a tweet that Jeff Woolsey
put out, which was hilarious. This week. He's like, our hybrid
strategy is a true and full planned out. Complete strategy,
multi cloud on premises exclusively cloud exclusively on
premises. Then also multi cloud as well
Warren du Toit: as the intelligent edge net
Rick Claus: and intelligent edge as well. Yeah. And he's like,
it's not a checkbox. It's right. It's not like oh, other cloud
vendor. Yeah, we do hybrid check. Yes, they can get past
the RFC or something like that. We actually have a full
documented way of how we can go off and do this sort of stuff.
Joey Snow: It's important to know that the reality is, is
hybrids going to exist for a very long time. Oh, yeah. And
it's something that we take very seriously inside of inside of
active directory, Azure Active Directory, and making sure that
we have the the ability to provide the security, to provide
the governance and to provide the compliance is absolutely
key, no matter where you are. So we spent a lot of time here at
Ignite, complementing a lot of that hybrid messaging that was
occurring, not just on the platform side, but also on the
identity side, right? We start looking at how can you secure
and manage those identities that
Warren du Toit: you see that's, that's why security has moved.
So, again, so like one of my sessions now that I'm doing in
a, in a couple minutes is on
is firewalls inside of Azure, right network virtual
appliances, and how people still need them because of certain
things. But Id, the firewalls not the protection mechanism
anymore, not the person, right? So identity, yes. So so the
identity is the way you secure your resources. It's not the
fact that your SQL Servers out on the internet now it's got
nothing to do with that anymore. So we're moving in that way. I
didn't The most important thing they
Joey Snow: the way I talk about this is that before we kind of
had all of these things together inside we had, we have the user
of the identity you had the platform of the devices, the
server, the application, you have the data. And and and
really Group Policy and some of the things that we had inside of
remedy did a little of this and a little about the kind of cross
all of them with Azure Active Directory, we had to split that
out. And we have Look, it's an if that's what it is. It's
purely an identity provider. And it's the one that we want
everybody to use. And it does one thing, which is identity and
imagine that it protects it. You want to connect your apps to the
identity have that single identity that is protected
because it is that Alex Simon's likes to call it the control
plane, we've done a lot of controlling talking around the
outside of here, it but that's it, it's that single place. It's
that one place and you know that that identity is is trusted and
and then more importantly, That the session that the identity
has actually initiated is also trusted, insecure. Yeah. So you
know, it's first make sure you turn on MFA because password
suck. And until we can get rid of that and we're in we really
are in the process of doing it. I think we've crossed the chasm
now, in terms of over a million identities are managed
passwordless so far.
Nicolas Blank: And we some of those we've been running
passwordless for months. Yep,
Joey Snow: absolutely. So a lot of investments a lot of talk
around password list that is real. these are these are things
you can do today. And and eventually it's our it's our
goal in our mission to get rid of passwords all together, and
then in the future, change the way identity is. So yeah, it's
it's super cool and exciting. That I think my favorite part
about this is that just like the the arc things, this all can be
done now and it can all be done across no matter where you are.
Yeah. And if you're if you're on prem, you're in Azure. You're in
other clouds.
Warren du Toit: And it's, it's not hard either. No, it No it's,
you know, to me like to turn MFA on or to take your password away
is really not hard you like take out a box and it's gone.
Nicolas Blank: or to even bring your own identity and federate
through Google, but still manage your object and Azure AD b2b
again. So there's so much goodness in there and then
policy and control them. And I still only have one direction. I
think that's wonderful.
Joey Snow: Yeah, we're leveraging conditional access
and the things that we can do through conditional access
policies is really kind of the game changer. Yeah. I kind of
look at turning on MFA is it's kind of three major things when
you turn on MFA for everything for everyone, which is really a
bad experience. As somebody who was on the early side, when we
did it at Microsoft, it's like oh my gosh, yeah. And and and
I've actually had customers that that have gone through this
route and I was just I was I was just over in Ireland. I was
speaking with a customer and and they're really struggling
because they did this the first time and it was not a good
experiences. Their CIO is really hesitant to go do it again. But
now we actually through conditional access, and that's,
that's stage two, right? Yeah. Being able to do conditional
access and make those, you know, rules around when do you based
on your location, your risk those those types of things. And
then that third step is taking it out of the hands of it to
making, making the termination of if the user is risky, or the
session is risky. And that's all that's all around identity
protection. And that's by leveraging the trillions and
trillions and trillions of signals that we get every single
day. We a lot of people donorship we authenticate 45
billion authentications in a month.
Warren du Toit: Tenant to tenant migration, right? Yep. Tenant to
tenant migration is hard.
Joey Snow: Yes. Yes.
Warren du Toit: And I blame you
Joey Snow: know, we know and this is this is this is very
work this is work that we're doing. Yeah,
it's work that we continue to do I and I don't want to make any
like like I'm gonna stay away from for for statements but this
is the type of feedback but it's also the feedback the
information that we need.
Warren du Toit: Yeah no show and it's why the inevitably
accompanies going to be bought or sold. Always always
Joey Snow: gonna have look m&a and some of our biggest. But
there's also it's also opportunity. Yeah, right. We
look at it as something that we have to address, because that's
what our customers are doing this. And I want to be clear, we
don't do anything inside of Azure Active Directory unless
there's a customer need to do it. Yeah. We no longer sit in a
room on whiteboards and come up with shiny disco ball things
thinking, well, if we could only get our customers to adopt this,
yeah, it doesn't even get to the next stage until there's a
customer story. Every time we build a new feature inside of
the service It is tempted inside of a private preview first
before it goes out into a broader public preview. All the
feedback comes in all the changes and modifications. And
there are times that something will sit in that public preview
for a considerable amount of time, because maybe we didn't
get it exactly right in the first time. Us, it's up to us to
make that modification based on what our customers needs not not
how we look at that. And then, you know, we'll obviously put it
into GA. And that is something that's why I am in the space.
That's why I'm in the team. We are that customer obsessed. I've
80 engineers here that have been just absolutely inundated in the
booth, in addition to doing sessions on the developer side
is is there's a lot of stuff happening there in terms of, as
Rick mentioned, with application modernization and monetization
platform to modernize the identity piece as well. Yeah.
And you have to move start moving things up. And so it's
just really important for folks to understand it. There's a lot
of hard things. We're also trying to make life easier
because identity is at its core can be a very challenging thing
to do. Oh, yes. It used to be, you know, five years and, and
and the slide deck that you paid a million dollars for that had
15 Chevron's at the top and you can't do a single thing until
you tick off all those 15 pieces. Now you can't do that
anymore with you've got to protect that thing. First turn
on him. If you do nothing else, turn on MFA. Yeah, via
conditional access and get that identity protected. And then we
can start moving down the path of doing things like
provisioning and de provisioning and which we can already do. You
can actually we have inbound provisioning through workday.
We're working on other platforms as well and integration there to
do inbound provisioning. You can do outbound provisioning with a
whole ton of applications of 1.3. We might be at 1.4 million
applications that have integration with Azure Active
Directory today.
Nicolas Blank: How many again so that number
Joey Snow: is we're probably close to 1.4. I don't We were
1.3. That number is two months old.
Nicolas Blank: Those are discrete applications.
Joey Snow: Those are applications that currently have
integration with Azure Active Directory. Yep. Yep. But that,
but that does not show
Warren du Toit: PowerShell is one of them. And so all the
other applications that use PowerShell in the back to make
those commands counts as one.
Nicolas Blank: Rick what did you do last summer.
Joey Snow: And then and then the other thing too
Rick Claus: Painted my house, worked on my Jeep.
Joey Snow: We made a lot of announcements here at Ignite,
and recently around partnerships that we have with things like
five Yes, where now we can expose applications behind those
five appliances. But here's the cool thing. You can set the
policy on the individual application. You're not just
doing it Oh, everything that hits the applied. So that
changes how you can modernize your applications as well.
Right? Yeah, we do. So So we've been spending a lot of time on
that because we as you mentioned It's not the thing anymore, not
the firewall, we have to start going, how do we get these apps?
And 1.3 1.4 million apps is awesome. But we have to make
sure that we hit the ones everybody is using. And that's
exactly what we've done. Yeah. So the top application providers
that that, that need authentication, we have those
partnerships with them, and they can do the things that we want
them to do. And it's all standards based. So we're not
going out and creating some new wild wacky way to connect
things. Yeah, right. We provision through scam. Right?
We do we do password list through Fido2. To we contribute
to the standards, I did an interview with Pamela Dingle,
whose entire job she's a director in product marketing.
She works for Alex Simon's in our org, and all she does is
standards. And it's it's incredible. The amount of effort
and time and contributions that we're making to these standards
to ensure that we can do this, not just now and doing it the
right way, but doing it
Warren du Toit: the right way. We were talking to Julia (Foran)
the other day.
I've got this thing about ICS standards. Yeah, a calendar
invite follows those standards, because they're all different
man.
Joey Snow: If you want to have if you want to have real fun
with standards Go Go read the CSP standard. Really? Yeah.
What's hardcore? Oh, it's a hot mess.
Nicolas Blank: it's a hot mess
Joey Snow: it's a hot mess. It's all we're doing things that was
never meant is it?
Warren du Toit: Is it is that comma?
Rick Claus: Is the quote of the show right there. It's a hot
mess.
Joey Snow: That's what Pamela told me anyway. Yeah, it's it.
Look at DNS it's always DNS. Yeah we always blame DNS.
Nicolas Blank: or networking
Rick Claus: I have a question for you. Actually. Yeah. If you
don't mind me, please. I mean, the show timeline. No, I like
well, it's my turn to talk about the, the the, the question the
the one of the topics we're talking about today is obviously
going to be multi cloud management, sort of Do you have
customers asking for this? Is it only that first level of
introductory people that are going that path? Or is everyone
asking for this? Because Is it a checkbox exercise? So or is it a
real actual ask? That's happened.
Warren du Toit: So to be honest with you, I think is a real
risk. Because you'll see that a particular client will never put
together just an Azure framework for their company. They want it
to be a cloud framework. So they want to make sure that these
policies cover everything moving forward, because it's a big
change for them. So they've now gone and set down policies who
can do this, you can do that that can be spun up that can't
wait, it can be accessed the portal from and that all gets
documented. But there's no point in doing it just for Azure.
You'll see some of the banks in South Africa, for instance, have
done AWS first course right and now they're putting that AWS
document to blueprints and obviously with something like
lights coming out as well, which, you know, manages those
blueprints across all those all those different tenants. Yes, I
would say having a single place to manage all those things is
very important, because some of them already have them. I mean,
you'll see Cape Town, for instance, has a very large, AWS
huge, huge country.
Nicolas Blank: In particular sectors like like retail. Yeah,
retail loves Amazon,
Warren du Toit: because for some reason you got these diehard
Linux dudes who haven't seen the light, and they're like, if
you're a Linux person, then you have to go AWS and be faithful,
which is like, the wrong way around. I mean, we know this. I
mean, I'm a Linux boy. And, you know, Microsoft is number one
open source contributor on the planet, but no, no, you're
betraying the you betraying the shell betraying the Shell, it's
a hot mess.
Joey Snow: Gonna be trading between betraying the shell and
hot mess are now the themes of this particular episode of the
podcast.
Warren du Toit: So to answer your question is I think it's I
think it's,
Nicolas Blank: I'll give you my spin on this as well and then
I'll, I'll maybe ask you to comment on it. So my biggest ask
for customers going multicloud is that they're trying to avoid
vendor lock in. So I'll put a little bit here put a little bit
day while use the commercial angle is, as you know, well that
I'm going to tell Microsoft there, I'm going to do a
percentage of my workload on another cloud, no matter how
well or how badly it does it because I'm trying to avoid
commercial lock and I want to commercial angle. The biggest
pain for me on that is management overhead. And having
a there's there's no single pane on anything. There's multiple
places of ordered. There's multiple management and
infrastructures, having to spend a lot of money with third
parties to get those logs into central location which tends to
be on premises, right? And not scale.
Rick Claus: Yep. So I agree with that. At the same time. What I
find is interesting is some customers that are jumping into
this conversation without thoroughly thinking it out is I
forget who mentioned it was on online, they were talking about
how, if you look at doing adopting a multi cloud
environments, you're not going to get the full depth and
breadth of the power of that particular platform vendor.
Yeah, because you have to leave only so much so deep. And that
applies to all three of the clouds. Yeah, that's out there.
That's what I find the the concept of arc very interesting,
because it doesn't matter to us where those resources happen to
be will give you the insights. So we're kind of like your, I'm
not going to call it a seven device, but we're kind of like
that inside of the Azure space. Because we bring stuff back into
duty now analytics on it, but you can leave your Kubernetes
running over an AWS if you want to. You can have your your
elastic compute or go off and do Nvidia AI type stuff in Google
if you want to do but you can also do it here too. And that's
true for as I mentioned that all three vendors, obviously, we
will make it the best experience possible inside of our own
clouds for all the different services that you have. Same
thing with AWS, same thing with Google. It's just the strategy
at all three players are doing, we're the first one to go out
and actually try to say, Okay, well, the reality is customers
are looking for this, we're asking for this. So let's go off
and give you an awesome experience here inside of Azure,
but then also give you the insights from other places.
Joey Snow: But it's the same thing from a security
perspective. And I hear this all the time when I talk about Azure
Active Directory, which then tends to lead down the
discussion of things like ATP and some of the other the other
security technologies that we have, because we're kind of all
together because that's how we're sold right as part of BMS,
right. But yes, there are multi vendors out there that the one
advantage that I see inside ourselves is the sheer volume of
of information and signals that we have, where we're getting
them from our ability to take action on those signals. And
then even more importantly, how inside all of our products, we
all can share that signals data, right? And we
Warren du Toit: can all take the same time as the new Microsoft,
right? So if you have to look from sort of when such a took
over, and that everything started getting open sourced,
and there was more collaboration, and they weren't
these big walls anymore. You can see that Microsoft now is
probably the number one integrator of other products
into their product, if you look at it holistically, there are
API's to do so many things there are I mean, if you look at the
graph framework, yeah, you can literally do whatever you want,
and get any data out of it. And then you can present it in a in
any way you want it to be and you can do it securely. And
there's like none of that you have to stick with us anymore.
What just choose it mix and match one
Joey Snow: of the biggest workloads that we authenticate
to is Google. Yeah.
I mean, that's we share that we share that all the time. I'd say
it was probably in Alex's presentation earlier this week.
Yeah. And so yeah, 100% I understand.
Nicolas Blank: what's the circumstance? They?
Joey Snow: Well, they're authenticating to Google
applications.
Nicolas Blank: Yeah, I was gonna say is it inbound from Google?
Or is it oubound to Google?
Joey Snow: So it's, it's an Azure Active Directory identity
is being used to access a Google Google Docs or whatever happens
to be because remember, and and, and identity is that's a little
bit tricky in terms of you really don't want to have
identities living in multiple places you don't because that
means there's more crappy passwords locating and that's
another thing that somebody has to manage. His identity is the
one thing that You have to, you have to make sure that you've
got it and it's secured. And it's, it's protected. And you
can manage it and you can cover and against it was only one of
them. Yeah. Well, that ideally, yes,
Warren du Toit: I do is anything I can take away from ignite is
how I can fix that problem that I'm having.
Joey Snow: But listen, we were very clear about our intention
moving forward. We want to take identity out of the hands of
companies and businesses and everybody else and bring it back
to the individual. That's, that's our future vision, right
where the person can control that identity and then give the
ability for me to us that it's explained then take it back. But
that's, that's, that's where we have to go. That's where we have
to go. And And particularly, just look, how many of us really
don't think our data is out there. Huh? Come on. You were
talking on the way to the airport here. They were PII on
your phone than there is on throughout your house. In any
documentation? Yeah, we carry these things around with us.
Right We connect 10 secure Wi Fi is and all the other bad
behavior that we have
Rick Claus: Bluetooth beacons. And as you're walking through a
mall, yeah, I don't know where you are in the mall and what
you're doing just by having a Bluetooth stack on.
Joey Snow: So I understand the concern around vendor lock in.
But at the same time, there are benefits to leveraging services
from a vendor that can have that communication and share that
data across and making that data exposed to you so that you can
take action or even better. Let the AI do it. Yeah. I don't want
to have to manage session risk. That's ridiculous to me. I don't
know what the best rule is for when when a session is risky. Or
when it user
Rick Claus: What do you mean, I can't log in here in Orlando and
in Seattle,
Joey Snow: within an hour each other time possible travel
scenario, or, hey, maybe I didn't know that my username and
password ended up in some breach and I've not changed it and I'm
a global admin. Yeah, you think you might want to know about
that and even better Just next time go who's the right one? No,
that's me because I've got a second factor off. Yes. And now,
Joey, let's reset your password. Or in this case, you know, just
MFA me because I'm pastoralists. Yeah, yeah.
Nicolas Blank: Oh, I'm just in time you so you don't need to be
a high risk person with global admin that gets targeted.
Joey Snow: Well, and that's that's really the key piece is
that you shouldn't be running global admin anyone? Yep. You
should only elevate when necessary and and even even more
importantly, we shouldn't be requiring you to be global admin
to do a lot of the things that you have, which is why we're
doing a lot of investment, a lot of work where I was about to
ask, because you know,
Nicolas Blank: there's a bunch of stuff in teams that you can't
do with Justin time. Other products. Yep, not quite there
yet. But all of the second teams is a very complicated beats
fine, but then the guidance that you see is I need this Roland
teams and I need that rollin teams and unless you and even if
you just in time them and this you then decided to Temporarily
grant someone Global Admins stuff still doesn't work. Right.
So our back is not as transparent as ubiquitous as we
wanted yet. But what I'm hearing from you is like,
Joey Snow: Yeah, well, we've been doing that we made
significant investments in that. We've made investments in that,
that we've talked about here with with some new reader roles
that we've that we've announced here. So we have to continue.
The best way that I can explain this is that we don't ship
product anymore. I we don't ship a new version of active
directory where we haven't done that in in years and years and
years. Yeah, we are a service. We enhance the service
consistently. We have to go faster. We have to do it faster,
because we have to get to our customers need it. Yeah. And
that's a difficult thing for IT professionals to kind of get
their heads around because either we're not fast enough or
we're too bloody fast. But that's where that that push and
pull. We made changes because we understood that we had to
provide this path Way to do hybrid identity?
Warren du Toit: And where do you draw the line of stability as
well? Right? Well, and how
Joey Snow: do we make it easier for people to actually go
password lists? And those are things that we heard from our
customers. They're like, Look, this is soo bone who I worked
for, says, when we did password list Initially, it was like a
moonshot. And our customers are like, Yo, what are you guys
doing? We're not like this. Yeah, we're like this, we need
you to help us get there in this manner. And we listened and we
made those adjustments. So I hundred percent hear you around
that in our back and those kinds of things. Just as a few years
ago, you had to be global admin to do everything. And that's not
good behavior. We have to change that behavior internally to and
we work on that. It's not just, hey, our customers are our
Microsoft to Microsoft is our customer to and we have to make
Rick Claus: that the best part is, as you mentioned, we don't
ship product anymore. Its services. I can't even not not
from the men's side of the design side as you brought up
there. But even just From a user side, opening up one of my apps
be outlook Word, PowerPoint, Excel flow tooling or Microsoft
Teams like that. I always get a little surprised in the morning
and says, Oh, you've been updated the latest version.
Okay, great. What changed? What can I find? as an end user?
That's a geek and a tech person. I love to go off and find all
the new stuff that's possibly there. People go off and find
it. Yeah. Yeah. Although all about stage not those are all
the different people. Yeah. And so you want to have that all
over the place. But yeah, no, teams of all. software products
evolve, the stuff inside of Azure evolves, there's no longer
gas' anymore. makes it hard for us to be able to talk about
announcements because you know, well that's been out for a while
but it just went ga but really, everyone's been using it for the
last six months. So really is a big hype anymore. Not so much
so, so it's it's kind of fun to see where that where that's
going to continue to evolve and how it changes us as
technologists.
Nicolas Blank: We are coming up to the The top of the hour so,
Rick Claus: and you've got a session to deliver somewhere
Joey Snow: in 20 minutes.
Nicolas Blank: So let us ask you, how would the like that?
How would the two of you like to be found on socials or dude? No,
no, let's not assume everybody knows who everybody is. So, let
us show you how they would like to be found. And then also ask
you one of the ones you would like to plug.
Joey Snow: Yeah, sure. Y'all go ahead
Rick Claus: and start so well. From a social and fun and
community perspective. You can find us both online together
because no one knows who is who and what is what and switch and
patch and patch and switch at sign patches, which is where we
normally happen to be on the social community and the fun
side.
Joey Snow: We do a podcast every other Friday on Twitch, it's
twitch.tv/patchandswitch. And then from a personal
perspective, you can find me on Twitter I'm at @Joeysnow
Rick Claus: snow and I'm at sign RicksterCDN and I managed a team
of folks that follow the hashtag, #AZops for our bat sign
l in case you have a question a out operations stuff inside
of Azure or on premises, or with identity or with teams o
with other things like that. S oot us a message with the has
tag and one of us will be able to get you. We almost follo
the sun around the Earth right ow.
Joey Snow: And turn on MFA.
Rick Claus: It's a great demo to turn that on. By the way, you
know what it is?, Check.
Nicolas Blank: Guys, thank you so much.
Rick Claus: An awesome show. Thank you very much, see you
around
Warren du Toit: Everyone. Before you go, we just wanted to say
thank you for listening. We really enjoy putting this
podcast together for you every two weeks, please visit us at
the architects cloud. Alternatively, drop us a tweet.
We'd love to hear what you have to say @TheCloudArch.