1 00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:21,720 Chris Goosen: Welcome to the cloud architects podcast, a 2 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,560 podcast about cloud technology, and the people using it. 3 00:00:26,860 --> 00:00:28,990 Nicolas Blank: The cloud architects podcast is sponsored 4 00:00:28,990 --> 00:00:32,920 by Kemp technologies. Choose Kemp to optimize your multi 5 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,950 cloud application deployments and simplify multi cloud 6 00:00:35,950 --> 00:00:39,790 application management. A single pane of glass for application 7 00:00:39,790 --> 00:00:44,320 delivery, Kemp provides a 360 degree view of your entire 8 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,700 application environment, and even third party ADCs. Download 9 00:00:48,700 --> 00:00:52,630 Kemp 360 for free today at Kemptechnologies.com 10 00:00:55,390 --> 00:00:57,820 Warren du Toit: Hello, everybody, and welcome to the 11 00:00:57,820 --> 00:01:02,260 post apocalyptic version of the cloud architects podcast. And we 12 00:01:02,260 --> 00:01:06,250 have a new co host today. Anna Chu! Welcome back. 13 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:06,870 Anna Chu: Hey. 14 00:01:08,890 --> 00:01:11,770 Warren du Toit: And again, we have the amazing little 15 00:01:11,770 --> 00:01:14,200 wonderful the stupendous, Mr. 16 00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:17,970 Nicolas Blank: Nicholas blank. 17 00:01:19,730 --> 00:01:23,420 I was I was waiting. I waited too long. I think I ruined the 18 00:01:23,420 --> 00:01:26,570 theatrical effect, but I gotta say that new Chris is a lot 19 00:01:26,750 --> 00:01:29,300 better looking than the old Chris. Ah, 20 00:01:29,390 --> 00:01:33,530 Warren du Toit: that's for sure. That's what you're gonna 21 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,650 say, Maxie. Same accent story. 22 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,700 Anna Chu: Is it? I don't know. I've been told it sounds a bit 23 00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:50,030 strange that people ask me if I'm British people.And people 24 00:01:50,030 --> 00:01:55,460 ask me.Yeah, but 25 00:01:56,180 --> 00:01:58,190 Nicolas Blank: it's a South African if I was from Spain. 26 00:02:01,550 --> 00:02:02,240 True Story. 27 00:02:02,759 --> 00:02:04,409 Anna Chu: Oh la la 28 00:02:04,529 --> 00:02:08,579 Nicolas Blank: la compadre. settled there differences in the 29 00:02:08,579 --> 00:02:11,129 accent between that one and this one. But now we got to roll with 30 00:02:11,129 --> 00:02:11,309 it. 31 00:02:12,900 --> 00:02:17,580 Anna Chu: Well, I am very proud to be your fit like her horse 32 00:02:17,580 --> 00:02:21,420 today. I'm not sure how this is gonna go or it might turn to 33 00:02:21,420 --> 00:02:24,720 crap. But Oh, well. Let's roll with it. 34 00:02:25,980 --> 00:02:26,760 Warren du Toit: Let's go with it. 35 00:02:29,930 --> 00:02:32,570 Cool. So what are we going to talk about today, I think I 36 00:02:32,570 --> 00:02:36,830 think something really important is we can talk about I'm not 37 00:02:36,830 --> 00:02:38,990 going to say post apocalyptic again, because and it's just 38 00:02:38,990 --> 00:02:43,040 going to mess things up. But let's let's go post Ignite. And 39 00:02:43,070 --> 00:02:46,940 we look at the technology that Microsoft has brought to the 40 00:02:46,940 --> 00:02:53,570 fold for CES. And so using innovations that Microsoft I 41 00:02:53,570 --> 00:02:58,520 consider what react is and has done with inspire ignite ready, 42 00:02:58,550 --> 00:03:02,480 bold. And I'm going to be using proceeds. That's a big deal. 43 00:03:02,990 --> 00:03:06,170 Anna Chu: That's a huge deal. Yeah, yeah, the event team has 44 00:03:06,170 --> 00:03:09,260 done a lot of work and they're really, you know, bullish and 45 00:03:09,260 --> 00:03:14,120 proving themselves. So I'm, yeah, I'm really interested in 46 00:03:14,810 --> 00:03:18,080 those down. Of course, us as Microsoft were a little bit more 47 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,980 forgiving of our own technology. We drink our own Kool Aid. 48 00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:26,870 trigger on champagne. Is that was that the time? Um, so yeah, 49 00:03:26,870 --> 00:03:31,580 I wonder if, how if What if we're really ready for primetime 50 00:03:31,580 --> 00:03:35,930 with CES, I have high hopes, I definitely think that the team 51 00:03:35,930 --> 00:03:38,960 will do pull out all the stops to make see is an awesome event 52 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,530 and what a great way to like actually be a partner for 53 00:03:42,530 --> 00:03:47,690 events, right? Like CES is a is a was already. I think there was 54 00:03:47,690 --> 00:03:51,230 a year that Microsoft decided not to be part of CES for 55 00:03:51,230 --> 00:03:55,550 whatever reason. But I think it's a lot better to actually be 56 00:03:55,550 --> 00:03:58,550 the one pairing the event instead of just being Hey, we're 57 00:03:58,550 --> 00:04:01,790 gonna be like a major partner and showcasing our product. But 58 00:04:01,790 --> 00:04:04,820 we're actually living it through through the event itself, which 59 00:04:04,820 --> 00:04:05,540 is really cool. 60 00:04:07,790 --> 00:04:10,970 Warren du Toit: That's super cool. And when it comes to I 61 00:04:10,970 --> 00:04:13,760 mean, just just your personal question is, are you looking 62 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,140 forward to anything at CES? 63 00:04:16,280 --> 00:04:19,610 Anna Chu: I havenever really been involved because CES is 64 00:04:19,610 --> 00:04:21,860 typically consumer thing. I've always worked in the 65 00:04:21,860 --> 00:04:22,910 commercials. Yes. 66 00:04:23,540 --> 00:04:28,670 So I if I ever, like the only time I ever look at CES is just 67 00:04:28,670 --> 00:04:31,820 as an observer, just as someone who's interested in, you know, 68 00:04:31,820 --> 00:04:35,060 what's happening in the Xbox world or Surface devices or any 69 00:04:35,060 --> 00:04:39,920 other, you know, mobile mobile devices, right. Um, for me, like 70 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,550 I've been spending a lot of time with online events. And I went 71 00:04:43,550 --> 00:04:49,250 to Adobe max last week. I've been going to see to Montreal 72 00:04:49,250 --> 00:04:51,290 for the last two years and this is the first time that they've 73 00:04:51,290 --> 00:04:54,410 done a completely online event. For those of you who don't know 74 00:04:54,410 --> 00:05:00,110 what C to Montreal is, it's a collaboration between the month 75 00:05:00,110 --> 00:05:05,720 Getting agency for Cirque du Soleil called Sibley and another 76 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:10,550 company I can't remember. But it's all about the collaboration 77 00:05:10,550 --> 00:05:14,840 between creativity and commerce. And so they always do a great 78 00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:21,020 job of getting amazing speakers. And really great immersive 79 00:05:21,020 --> 00:05:24,320 experiences. So I was really curious how they would do that 80 00:05:24,350 --> 00:05:28,130 with everything being online. I mean, how immersive Can you be 81 00:05:28,130 --> 00:05:32,570 when you're at the same desk that you read email and do teams 82 00:05:32,570 --> 00:05:36,800 calls, you know, but they got had some workshops, and one even 83 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,810 involve me walking out of my house, and observing like, like 84 00:05:41,810 --> 00:05:46,670 noticing what really stood out for me. And I think in this age 85 00:05:46,670 --> 00:05:51,770 of, you know, we're still in pandemic work mode. More, and I 86 00:05:51,770 --> 00:05:54,560 know that, when we were talking earlier, you were saying that 87 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,040 you will starting to feel a bit fatigued from working from home 88 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:03,140 for a while. So like, you do need to get outside and sick get 89 00:06:03,140 --> 00:06:05,450 exposed to a completely different environment in order 90 00:06:05,450 --> 00:06:09,020 for you to, you know, not only like stay sane and preserve your 91 00:06:09,020 --> 00:06:12,470 mental health, but just, you know, just for a little bit of 92 00:06:12,470 --> 00:06:13,430 relief, right? 93 00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:18,020 Warren du Toit: Yeah, hundred percent Look, I mean, I guess, 94 00:06:18,230 --> 00:06:22,520 we've tried to replicate the stuff that it is that we do on a 95 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:28,670 daily basis, but from home, so, you know, got a gym, or you have 96 00:06:28,670 --> 00:06:33,320 a spinning machine or I don't know, you know, just those 97 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,200 little things that you try to replicate. I mean, the kids, you 98 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:42,470 know, joining meetings and sort of virtual, virtual and Roblox 99 00:06:42,470 --> 00:06:45,080 games and things like that. But you're right. I mean, there's, 100 00:06:45,140 --> 00:06:48,710 there's only so much that you can mean, there's some sort of 101 00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:52,010 interaction that sort of has to happen, but it's not, you can't 102 00:06:52,010 --> 00:06:53,060 necessarily get 103 00:06:53,510 --> 00:06:56,330 Nicolas Blank: away actually, you get such digital fatigue, 104 00:06:56,330 --> 00:06:58,730 that you don't care, you don't care about how amazing the 105 00:06:58,730 --> 00:07:02,870 content is, you get to the point where I just want to be in the 106 00:07:02,870 --> 00:07:06,590 same room as another human being, and talk to them and see 107 00:07:06,590 --> 00:07:11,690 them and see the the pale blue blue light of another screen. 108 00:07:12,230 --> 00:07:15,560 Anna Chu: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's really it's, it's 109 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,480 really, really tough. And I think we've said it many times 110 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,600 that COVID-19 is kind of like everyone's digital 111 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,960 transformation officer, I everyone's had to like, be 112 00:07:26,990 --> 00:07:31,850 pushed into digital, kicking and screaming and set. The same 113 00:07:31,850 --> 00:07:34,940 applies for online events. And one thing I've been thinking 114 00:07:34,940 --> 00:07:40,070 about is, have the objectives of events changed. Because now that 115 00:07:40,070 --> 00:07:44,930 we move to online, let's think about this, right? As I look at 116 00:07:45,110 --> 00:07:51,470 the metrics for ignite 2020. And compare that to our metrics for 117 00:07:51,470 --> 00:07:56,120 2019. We, in person event, we looked at things like how many 118 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,840 people turn up? How many registrations do we get? We 119 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:01,310 looked at things like that, now, 120 00:08:01,340 --> 00:08:02,600 Warren du Toit: we're completely blown up. 121 00:08:03,110 --> 00:08:08,480 Anna Chu: Yeah, totally blown out. Like, like, like, a lot. 122 00:08:08,810 --> 00:08:15,320 I'm, like, 10 times just a little under 10. x, you know, 123 00:08:15,350 --> 00:08:18,410 just crazy. But there's a couple of things behind that we might 124 00:08:18,410 --> 00:08:23,120 be event free. And typically ignite, you have to pay like two 125 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:28,580 grand also, to for the price of admission. We've also looked at, 126 00:08:28,790 --> 00:08:31,820 you know, session scans to get a sense of like, how many people 127 00:08:31,820 --> 00:08:37,490 actually attended sessions? Well, when you are logging in 128 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:43,550 to, to a session, right? Is that person really there is not a 129 00:08:43,550 --> 00:08:48,650 captive audience a distracted by, like, they could have three 130 00:08:48,650 --> 00:08:52,520 other tabs open on their browser, that, yeah, it'd be a 131 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,610 source of distraction, let alone what's happening in their home. 132 00:08:56,180 --> 00:08:59,120 Now, you could also argue that, you know, we weren't able to 133 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,000 capture people walking out of those rooms. But as someone who 134 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,390 used to stand by that door, didn't really I mean, you just 135 00:09:05,570 --> 00:09:08,360 have like, maybe 10 1215 depending on the room, like 136 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:13,430 really point 01 percent of the people in the room. But 137 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,850 attention spans really difficult. And the other thing 138 00:09:16,850 --> 00:09:21,830 too, is something that is been really on my mind is these 139 00:09:21,830 --> 00:09:25,370 events have always been technical training events, 140 00:09:25,490 --> 00:09:29,810 right? So how do we do this online when people's attention 141 00:09:29,810 --> 00:09:34,700 spans are so limited? And I mean, you you've seen this at 142 00:09:34,700 --> 00:09:39,020 Ignite, like, we've always done like 45 minutes, 75 minutes 143 00:09:39,020 --> 00:09:43,610 session breakouts. We didn't do that for our online event. Like 144 00:09:43,610 --> 00:09:49,250 we did 20 minutes, 30 minute things. So is that going to help 145 00:09:49,250 --> 00:09:52,130 people get the technical depth that they need to be successful 146 00:09:52,130 --> 00:09:57,350 in their jobs? I'm really interested in how technical 147 00:09:57,380 --> 00:10:02,210 training organizations pivoting like have you guys seen 148 00:10:02,210 --> 00:10:04,370 anything? Have you guys seen major changes? They're 149 00:10:07,250 --> 00:10:10,850 Warren du Toit: not really not not remind me look Hi. For me 150 00:10:10,850 --> 00:10:14,420 it's also an there's an excitement factor. I'm going to 151 00:10:14,420 --> 00:10:18,380 the the person who led the session afterwards, and having a 152 00:10:18,380 --> 00:10:22,010 chat to them saying that was amazing or seeing what sort of 153 00:10:22,010 --> 00:10:25,940 shirt they were wearing, because I suppose he gave you some sort 154 00:10:25,940 --> 00:10:28,460 of indication of what the kind of person what that person was 155 00:10:28,460 --> 00:10:31,820 like. Whereas now, let's say it's pre recorded. They're 156 00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:35,960 wearing a shirt that Microsoft told them to it, or how 157 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,490 rehearsed wasn't actually. Um, so it was, I think leading to my 158 00:10:40,490 --> 00:10:43,310 next question is when it comes to the virtual table sessions 159 00:10:43,310 --> 00:10:47,480 and the social virtual sessions that you tried to have it 160 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:48,530 ignited at work? 161 00:10:48,980 --> 00:10:52,910 Anna Chu: Yeah, I'll tell you what Hawks. Um, yeah. Last time, 162 00:10:52,910 --> 00:10:55,550 when we spoke, I was talking about how it was a bit of an 163 00:10:55,550 --> 00:11:00,290 experiment. I thought it went really well. The feedback that 164 00:11:00,290 --> 00:11:03,320 we got from the table talks was like, Oh, my gosh, I could have 165 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,170 sat in these table talks all day, we had repeat customers, we 166 00:11:06,170 --> 00:11:09,560 had people coming back, like Table to Table Talk, I had my 167 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:15,050 coffee, I woke up early stayed up late in order to be part of 168 00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:20,600 as many of them as I could. And people really love the free 169 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,560 flowing conversation. They've really loved that, you know, 170 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:28,190 they had a place where they could have that hallway 171 00:11:28,190 --> 00:11:34,520 conversation, that you typically have big conferences. And while 172 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,760 they was an agenda, it was super loose. It was more like, hey, 173 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,510 like, this is going to be a table talk about application 174 00:11:41,510 --> 00:11:45,230 development. Got a couple of people here, like, let's find 175 00:11:45,230 --> 00:11:47,120 out in the room, like what people are interested in 176 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,940 building what you're building right now. You know, just have a 177 00:11:49,940 --> 00:11:53,240 chat, though. The main complaint I had was that 30 minutes is too 178 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:58,310 short. And I agree with that. I'm sorry, I'm hoping we can 179 00:11:58,310 --> 00:12:04,490 expand that. I'm very interested in like, any advice or any tips 180 00:12:04,490 --> 00:12:08,390 that people might have. So any listeners to this podcast, just, 181 00:12:08,420 --> 00:12:13,370 you know, message me on on Twitter, at underscore HQ, if 182 00:12:13,370 --> 00:12:16,190 you've got any ideas of how you've seen networking done 183 00:12:16,190 --> 00:12:22,940 well, especially a really big events, right, like, like, the 184 00:12:22,970 --> 00:12:27,560 Ignite reached like hundreds of thousands of people. So trying 185 00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:31,700 to do intimate networking can be very difficult. But I'm very 186 00:12:31,700 --> 00:12:34,820 excited about Microsoft Teams and the breakout room 187 00:12:34,820 --> 00:12:39,440 functionalities. And maybe we can do it that way. Yeah, yeah, 188 00:12:39,470 --> 00:12:44,870 that would be really fun. I see online events to and they have 189 00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:48,320 used the breakout room functionality. I think the 190 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,790 difference the challenge with that from from that event is 191 00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:56,360 that not everyone went into the breakout rooms like me included 192 00:12:56,390 --> 00:12:59,720 guilty, because I was planning on just passively listening. And 193 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,560 so if you were pushing l had allocated, he would go into 194 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:07,070 breakout rooms, some would be more full than others. So I 195 00:13:07,070 --> 00:13:08,750 don't know, it's just one of those things that we need to 196 00:13:08,930 --> 00:13:10,280 take into consideration. 197 00:13:11,900 --> 00:13:14,630 Nicolas Blank: You realize you celebrating something that was 198 00:13:14,630 --> 00:13:18,920 successful there? And it was because it had interaction? And 199 00:13:18,950 --> 00:13:23,720 we weren't just being statically presented at? And yeah, that's 200 00:13:24,380 --> 00:13:28,100 sweet. We love interacting. And we had a conference and we 201 00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:31,910 weren't just watching slide off the slide off the slide deck by 202 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:37,370 Anna Chu: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was a, I think it was the best 203 00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:42,020 solution for Yes, what you said there, like driving interaction 204 00:13:42,020 --> 00:13:46,460 and connections. I have no idea whether people like started 205 00:13:46,490 --> 00:13:50,360 connecting with other people in that check table talk one on one 206 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,500 afterwards. I don't have a way of measuring that. Nor do I want 207 00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:59,180 to, like be so you know, big brother about it. Right? Like, 208 00:13:59,210 --> 00:14:06,470 we kind of have to leave things to be organic. So yeah, um, but 209 00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:10,190 we shall say, Oh, I also did one in Japanese Actually, I didn't 210 00:14:10,190 --> 00:14:14,150 personally but I was like, you know, what, like, the people 211 00:14:14,180 --> 00:14:18,710 community is also very local. Right? And with the Japanese, 212 00:14:19,730 --> 00:14:23,780 they need to connect with people who speak their language. 213 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,770 English is not their mother tongue, right? Or something that 214 00:14:27,770 --> 00:14:30,830 they feel super comfortable speaking in, and so interact 215 00:14:30,830 --> 00:14:34,940 like, so they won't feel 100% comfortable interacting in, in a 216 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,690 in a format like that, where the predominant language is English. 217 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:44,030 And so I sat in on the the Japanese one. I don't understand 218 00:14:44,030 --> 00:14:48,380 a lick of Japanese, but I just observed and people will, like, 219 00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:52,280 turn the cameras on. They turn the cameras on. They unmuted 220 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:57,110 themselves. It was awesome. You know, like, I think, like, if 221 00:14:57,110 --> 00:15:00,980 you look at all the sessions, we did, we did breakouts, We did 222 00:15:00,980 --> 00:15:04,310 them in in teams live events, you had the interaction in the 223 00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:09,200 chat, you didn't see anyone's faces. Like, one thing I did, 224 00:15:09,260 --> 00:15:14,510 and I kept doing it was I turned on together mode for myself, 225 00:15:14,660 --> 00:15:18,950 took a screenshot of that, paste it in the chat window. And but 226 00:15:18,950 --> 00:15:22,670 and of course, if people don't know, or you don't turn on 227 00:15:22,670 --> 00:15:25,460 together mode for everybody, you do it for yourself. So you can 228 00:15:25,460 --> 00:15:29,720 see everyone in that beautiful format. And so it was a little 229 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,860 bit, it was two things. One, I was showcasing a feature of 230 00:15:33,860 --> 00:15:38,930 teams through Table Table, as a good corporate citizen and a fan 231 00:15:38,930 --> 00:15:41,660 of Microsoft Teams. And secondly, I was really 232 00:15:41,660 --> 00:15:46,220 motivating people to actually turn on the cameras unmute their 233 00:15:46,220 --> 00:15:49,670 microphone, so they can see themselves in together mode, and 234 00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:53,000 start and stop just giving them a little signal, say, Hey, this 235 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,020 is the permissible thing to do, you don't have to, but if you 236 00:15:57,020 --> 00:16:01,670 want to be involved in this way, you know, join in. So I think 237 00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:05,480 you have to like Softly, softly let people feel comfortable. 238 00:16:06,380 --> 00:16:10,250 With an interactive mode, like I learned a lot from doing 239 00:16:10,250 --> 00:16:15,410 unconferences in the in person event 2019. Certainly some 240 00:16:15,410 --> 00:16:18,320 people gave us feedback that there were some dominant voices 241 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,610 and dominant personalities, which is fine. But you have to 242 00:16:22,610 --> 00:16:28,040 make sure that as a facilitator, you acknowledge that and play a 243 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,460 role in pivoting and making sure that everybody has a chance to 244 00:16:31,460 --> 00:16:35,900 speak if they want the opportunity, you know, so I 245 00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:39,380 think we did a really good job of using technology to to 246 00:16:39,380 --> 00:16:45,500 advantage to facilitate who 247 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,890 Warren du Toit: at least it other than us, you know, how you 248 00:16:48,890 --> 00:16:52,940 get these common meeting mistakes, or the common things 249 00:16:52,940 --> 00:16:57,320 that happened inside of meetings or like you're on mute. Or you 250 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,780 know, your cameras or whatever the case may be is which leads 251 00:16:59,780 --> 00:17:03,200 me to the next thing is who runs Microsoft Instagram, because 252 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:11,270 that's, that is hilarious. Instagram, it's really funny. 253 00:17:11,630 --> 00:17:15,770 It's like, something you haven't heard in three hours, or 254 00:17:15,830 --> 00:17:18,680 whatever the case is, and it's always like this, this random 255 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:23,570 meme about something bad you do. What's the funniest thing you've 256 00:17:23,570 --> 00:17:26,030 done on a meeting? Like in the last month? 257 00:17:26,690 --> 00:17:32,240 Anna Chu: Ah, I've been using the snap snap camera filters are 258 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:39,260 using playing with that. I actually have and I could put a 259 00:17:39,260 --> 00:17:47,060 cat on my head on it. Let me see if I could do I could miss a cat 260 00:17:47,060 --> 00:17:55,250 one as a whole bunch of them. I could I haven't done anything. I 261 00:17:55,250 --> 00:17:58,580 have Oh, this one's gonna be interesting. Oh my gosh, I can 262 00:17:58,580 --> 00:18:03,410 be a on this is going away. Oh, look, I'm a Halloween bride. 263 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,210 This better make the blooper reel. 264 00:18:13,970 --> 00:18:15,860 Nicolas Blank: I'm not so sure about the blooper reel. I think 265 00:18:15,860 --> 00:18:17,180 this is gonna make mainstream. 266 00:18:19,130 --> 00:18:19,880 Warren du Toit: mainstream. 267 00:18:21,620 --> 00:18:24,680 Anna Chu: Yes. I mean, look at this. Look at these cheekbones. 268 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:31,880 It looks amazing. I haven't know I feel like I'm pretty good at 269 00:18:32,420 --> 00:18:37,130 teams etiquette. And I think I don't know why it's just been 270 00:18:37,130 --> 00:18:41,510 drilled into me to, you know, oh, one thing I will say I don't 271 00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:45,530 think it's so much mistakes. I think using teams to have 272 00:18:45,530 --> 00:18:50,660 meetings is just has really helped introverts because if 273 00:18:50,660 --> 00:18:53,510 that like this couple of things. One, the raise hand feature is 274 00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:59,210 excellent. Because, yes. You know, Nicole with 2050 people, 275 00:18:59,390 --> 00:19:02,060 and you just can't get a word in edgewise. So the right hand 276 00:19:02,060 --> 00:19:08,450 features is great for that. Also, you can see through too 277 00:19:08,450 --> 00:19:10,670 intense as someone is trying to say something because you can 278 00:19:10,670 --> 00:19:16,490 see that little avatar profile picture like flash purple. So 279 00:19:16,490 --> 00:19:20,270 hey, like there's audio being detected on their microphone. So 280 00:19:20,270 --> 00:19:22,670 maybe they're trying to say something. And so if you 281 00:19:22,670 --> 00:19:28,190 visually you see that you like, hey, Nate, do you want to do it 282 00:19:28,190 --> 00:19:28,940 looks like you have something? 283 00:19:30,530 --> 00:19:35,120 Nicolas Blank: I'm sorry. Thank you. Yes. 284 00:19:36,140 --> 00:19:39,110 Anna Chu: quesion All right. There we go. 285 00:19:40,940 --> 00:19:46,070 Um, so yeah, I think it's been really good in driving people 286 00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:50,840 to, you know, be more inclusive of all the different voices in 287 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:59,420 the room. Yeah, yeah. Um, 288 00:20:01,610 --> 00:20:02,630 Warren du Toit: You want to say something? 289 00:20:05,450 --> 00:20:07,790 Nicolas Blank: Well, you know, for the fact that you're looking 290 00:20:07,790 --> 00:20:10,610 so blue today, wine, I don't know what you've done with your 291 00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:14,810 camera. But don't do it again. It's fine. You know what we can 292 00:20:14,810 --> 00:20:17,810 talk and calibrated afterwards? Magic? 293 00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:24,200 So yeah, we keep on talking about COVID and the success of 294 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:29,420 Ignite. And what is the next one gonna look like was ignite never 295 00:20:29,420 --> 00:20:32,750 going to end because we used to have a show called ignited 296 00:20:32,750 --> 00:20:36,200 chirp. So what do we have not we have an everlasting ignite 297 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,400 Anna Chu: FCM never ending story No, um, 298 00:20:40,850 --> 00:20:44,270 Nicolas Blank: do we even one? Is ignite still special if it 299 00:20:44,270 --> 00:20:45,050 never ends? 300 00:20:45,950 --> 00:20:51,830 Anna Chu: Yeah, I well okay this.is it's coming, there is 301 00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:56,750 gonna be another ignite happening in March. That's all I 302 00:20:56,750 --> 00:20:59,390 can communicate in terms of time frame right now. So 303 00:20:59,420 --> 00:21:02,540 Warren du Toit: you heard it here, folks all much. 304 00:21:04,130 --> 00:21:09,350 Anna Chu: I think where what the future of digital events will be 305 00:21:09,350 --> 00:21:17,390 interesting. I don't really nor we one thing that is very clear 306 00:21:17,390 --> 00:21:19,730 from the conversations we've been having the planning team is 307 00:21:19,730 --> 00:21:24,350 we want to do more to drive local engagement. I mentioned 308 00:21:24,350 --> 00:21:28,640 the experiment we did with a Japanese Table Talk. And we 309 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,180 certainly want to do more to reach out to our Asia Pacific 310 00:21:32,180 --> 00:21:35,990 audiences, because I think they felt a little left out with the 311 00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:42,080 English centric content just fine. We just need to do a 312 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,710 better job of reaching people in different languages, right. And 313 00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:49,160 that's inclusive of Spanish, French, German, Brazilian 314 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:54,380 Portuguese, whatever it may be, right. So we want to do more of 315 00:21:54,380 --> 00:21:58,340 that. And perhaps we need and but it's just not, it's not just 316 00:21:58,340 --> 00:22:03,050 the language thing, like localization is about translated 317 00:22:03,050 --> 00:22:09,530 the tire experience. And like, I website, the Register button, 318 00:22:10,820 --> 00:22:14,720 like the clothes cache, everything, it's a lot more than 319 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:20,870 just the content. So and also culturally, for some coaches, 320 00:22:21,170 --> 00:22:26,870 like they need that. I haven't delved deep into this. But we 321 00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:32,030 need to consider cultural differences as well. It's not 322 00:22:32,030 --> 00:22:36,170 just a straight up AI language translation. chozo isn't 323 00:22:36,170 --> 00:22:41,900 perfect, either. So we're thinking about that. Um, but I 324 00:22:41,900 --> 00:22:45,290 think something I was alluding to earlier, in terms of, you 325 00:22:45,290 --> 00:22:49,790 know, the content now being shorter. And technical 326 00:22:49,790 --> 00:22:53,150 readiness, we also have to think about on demand event strategy, 327 00:22:53,150 --> 00:22:56,960 too, because going back to what you were saying, around fatigue. 328 00:22:57,290 --> 00:23:02,150 And this, there's a lot of content and to expect people to 329 00:23:02,180 --> 00:23:05,120 tune in for like eight hours straight, 12 hours straight, 330 00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:12,260 2448 hours straight is not really healthy. So we want to 331 00:23:12,290 --> 00:23:16,190 motivate people to go at their own pace, especially when the 332 00:23:16,190 --> 00:23:21,380 content gets very technically deep, like level 300 400 level, 333 00:23:21,410 --> 00:23:26,090 right? I've been thinking about that. So there's an on demand 334 00:23:26,090 --> 00:23:29,360 piece of that. But how many times like would you also be 335 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:33,350 motivated to go if that was pre recorded, and there was no one 336 00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:36,830 there to like guide you. So I'm thinking about interaction 337 00:23:36,830 --> 00:23:42,110 styles to there's a lot to think about. Um, I know that in the 338 00:23:42,110 --> 00:23:45,110 last podcast we did together talking about ignite, we were I 339 00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:47,840 was using the analogy of television for our content, 340 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,200 which is very true, like we had to operate like this clockwork. 341 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:59,780 But is that at compromising? The longer form content that people 342 00:23:59,780 --> 00:24:03,380 need to help them be better developers? Better IT 343 00:24:03,380 --> 00:24:08,180 professionals? Right. So yeah, curious on your on your thoughts 344 00:24:08,180 --> 00:24:12,770 about, you know, how we could, you know, still help people get 345 00:24:12,770 --> 00:24:17,090 hands on with technology in this work from home setting, you 346 00:24:17,090 --> 00:24:23,570 know? Yeah. But on that, on that, I will say we launched a 347 00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:26,240 new feature, and I was I couldn't talk about it. Now, 348 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,690 last episode. In the tech community, it's the video hub. 349 00:24:29,930 --> 00:24:35,660 So we've got hundreds of videos and interactive demos. So click 350 00:24:35,660 --> 00:24:37,970 through demos. So that kind of talks to a little bit of 351 00:24:37,970 --> 00:24:42,530 technical readiness. If you go to the tech community tech 352 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,480 community.microsoft.com, and garter the top navigation cord 353 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:52,130 community hubs, we have a new video and you'll see lots of 354 00:24:52,130 --> 00:24:57,380 video content. And also if you you know love SharePoint love 355 00:24:57,380 --> 00:25:00,560 Azure and you go to the actual as you can community hub 356 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,830 SharePoint community hub, you'll see the latest videos that have 357 00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:06,680 come in from the video have served up to you on that landing 358 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,950 page. So you don't have to like go specifically to the video hub 359 00:25:10,190 --> 00:25:13,400 to find it, we will recommend content view based on the 360 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,580 community hub you're in. So that's a new feature that we 361 00:25:16,580 --> 00:25:21,320 pushed out to hopefully help people with getting familiar 362 00:25:21,350 --> 00:25:26,030 with with, you know, the new announcements and the new 363 00:25:26,030 --> 00:25:31,100 products and new features coming. So yeah, yeah. So we're 364 00:25:31,130 --> 00:25:34,070 always ever expanding the features that we have on the 365 00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:35,030 tech community. 366 00:25:35,270 --> 00:25:39,230 Nicolas Blank: And it's a double edged sword, though, because the 367 00:25:39,230 --> 00:25:43,160 content is fantastic, not taking away from that, I think we've 368 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:48,050 gone from, because in physical events, we had the constraints 369 00:25:48,050 --> 00:25:50,510 of what we could do physically in terms of walking from one 370 00:25:50,510 --> 00:25:53,930 session to another. And I could only physically talk to so many 371 00:25:53,930 --> 00:25:58,790 presenters and look at the T shirts per day. And I feel like 372 00:25:58,790 --> 00:26:02,900 from a content point of view, we've gone from ignite, which 373 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:07,430 was the fire hose to a digital only format, which is now 374 00:26:07,610 --> 00:26:11,930 several sets of tidal waves. And I don't think we need to 375 00:26:12,740 --> 00:26:16,280 navigate there, we don't have the guidance that says, in your 376 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,930 role in your job in your persona. This is how much or how 377 00:26:20,930 --> 00:26:24,170 little you need to do what you need to do. 378 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,940 Anna Chu: Yeah, like, Are you saying you don't know what the 379 00:26:29,940 --> 00:26:35,160 minimum you know, table stakes are to be a certain level of 380 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,390 certain expertise. 381 00:26:37,170 --> 00:26:42,180 Nicolas Blank: I'm saying this so much content that I could if 382 00:26:42,180 --> 00:26:45,870 I just look at the the folks that are followed from the the 383 00:26:46,020 --> 00:26:51,690 Azure group, the Azure AD group and office 365 group. And I 384 00:26:51,690 --> 00:26:56,730 could do nothing but consume content, eight hours a day, 385 00:26:56,850 --> 00:27:01,020 excluding the stuff that has been added to community. And 386 00:27:01,230 --> 00:27:04,920 then there's the video content, which I play at normal speed, 387 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,160 and I don't fast forward, plus some of the most amazing 388 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,660 podcasts that are out at the moment. Like, I don't have 389 00:27:12,660 --> 00:27:15,690 enough hours in my day to consume content and work. 390 00:27:16,049 --> 00:27:19,439 Anna Chu: Hmm, yes. Yes, that's very true. 391 00:27:19,860 --> 00:27:22,260 Warren du Toit: hasn't been hasn't always been like that, 392 00:27:22,260 --> 00:27:26,280 though. Like, because now you just 393 00:27:26,759 --> 00:27:27,929 Nicolas Blank: multiply Oh, 394 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,040 Warren du Toit: yeah, but you're forced to consume it that way. 395 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,420 Now, because if we had to have sort of a said, we have to think 396 00:27:36,420 --> 00:27:40,350 back a little bit you'd ignore could be your week of lateness 397 00:27:40,350 --> 00:27:43,050 from work. But now what happens is you've got that sort of 398 00:27:43,050 --> 00:27:46,260 context switching that has to happen sort of, in between, so I 399 00:27:46,260 --> 00:27:48,540 completely understand what you're saying. But also at the 400 00:27:48,540 --> 00:27:54,510 same token, we, like we were forced to take those days and 401 00:27:54,510 --> 00:27:58,800 dedicate them to something, whereas now you don't. And 402 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,760 maybe, maybe that's our issue is I mean, like, I know, you know, 403 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:08,790 as if he, they, they say quite a bit is make time for your, your 404 00:28:08,790 --> 00:28:12,510 personal learning and your growth and, you know, you know, 405 00:28:12,660 --> 00:28:16,170 like, sort of take time out of the day, because they understand 406 00:28:16,170 --> 00:28:19,020 exactly how many meetings somebody will put in your 407 00:28:19,020 --> 00:28:24,210 calendar if they could. So maybe that's something that we, we 408 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:30,090 suppose need to say, Okay, well, can we just break out like a two 409 00:28:30,090 --> 00:28:33,360 hour? I mean, is it possible, you break out two hours in your 410 00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:36,090 day and say, Okay, well, this is exactly what I'm gonna look at. 411 00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:41,760 Um, so the fire hose becomes just a little bit smaller. We 412 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,510 have to adapt to, I suppose. But it's like you say, you, you are 413 00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:48,240 limited to physically, you walked into the room, and that 414 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,590 was where you were for that hour. So maybe that's what you 415 00:28:52,620 --> 00:28:53,910 sort of need to do, I guess? 416 00:28:54,330 --> 00:28:56,880 Nicolas Blank: Yeah, I'd like some, some guidance on this so 417 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:02,070 that we could share with like, we've had to teach digital 418 00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:06,000 netiquette. Right. So don't Yeah, don't schedule an 419 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,270 appointment for an hour and a half or an hour. Because you 420 00:29:09,270 --> 00:29:12,330 know, people need space to be human. So make it 45 minutes. 421 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,620 Yeah, those are skills that we we don't naturally have, because 422 00:29:16,620 --> 00:29:20,640 the calendars and an hour block. It'd be good if we could give 423 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,030 some guidance in terms of how did you laugh in digital age 424 00:29:24,030 --> 00:29:28,470 where there's so much content, but at the same time, I still 425 00:29:28,470 --> 00:29:31,860 need to do my day job. But the content is really very relevant 426 00:29:31,860 --> 00:29:36,570 to my job. But I can't spend 12 hours a day consuming content 427 00:29:36,570 --> 00:29:39,270 and I can't spend 12 hours a day doing my job because neither one 428 00:29:39,270 --> 00:29:43,770 is actually healthy. And then I work from home. My life is a 429 00:29:43,770 --> 00:29:46,200 mess. COVID Yeah. 2020 about 430 00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:50,860 Anna Chu: Yeah, yeah. So taking the an out the fire hose 431 00:29:50,860 --> 00:29:55,990 analogy. You got to lay it pipes. Right and evaluate it. 432 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,430 You got to figure out like hey, like how, where am I going to 433 00:30:02,050 --> 00:30:05,920 divide my time, your time is like a pie chart. And you figure 434 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,130 out how much time you want to spend with your family, how much 435 00:30:09,130 --> 00:30:13,150 time you want to spend with work, and then you and how much 436 00:30:13,150 --> 00:30:15,760 time you want to spend on learning. And figure out, you 437 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,350 know, what that looks like in your day. Like exercise as well. 438 00:30:20,350 --> 00:30:24,580 And that's us. Like I, I feel one thing I've I'm trying to do, 439 00:30:24,580 --> 00:30:30,340 and I fall off the wagon, every so often is prioritize workouts 440 00:30:30,340 --> 00:30:35,440 in the morning. So this morning, I did my workout I, I'm using an 441 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:44,200 app, and it makes me do a bunch of, you know, things today on 442 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,880 Monday was like, but you know, I did it, and I feel so much 443 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:56,140 better for it. I worked out, I took my shower, I got ready, I 444 00:30:56,140 --> 00:31:01,690 turned on my camera did this podcast. And you have to when 445 00:31:01,690 --> 00:31:06,640 you when I say lay your pots, it also is another way of saying 446 00:31:07,090 --> 00:31:10,840 define your boundaries. So if you are wanting to work nine to 447 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,990 five, it is strictly nine to five, you do not take a meeting 448 00:31:13,990 --> 00:31:17,500 at eight, you do not take a meeting at six. That is like 449 00:31:17,620 --> 00:31:21,910 that is when you work. And I think Don does this really well 450 00:31:21,910 --> 00:31:27,790 don't asaka a lot of people, I encourage everyone to like be 451 00:31:27,790 --> 00:31:30,430 very clear on your boundaries and do not do not make 452 00:31:30,430 --> 00:31:34,300 exceptions unless it really is an exception. Exceptional 453 00:31:34,330 --> 00:31:39,340 situation. But then like, then you've got things in lieu. So if 454 00:31:39,340 --> 00:31:42,340 you are going to take that 8am meeting then you finished up at 455 00:31:42,340 --> 00:31:46,630 four. Right? You've got you are in control of your and your 456 00:31:46,630 --> 00:31:48,670 calendar. So stick to it. 457 00:31:50,790 --> 00:31:54,600 Nicolas Blank: That's good. Scrap brass. Yeah. 458 00:31:55,020 --> 00:31:58,050 Anna Chu: Yeah. And also, like go back to like, your, your New 459 00:31:58,050 --> 00:32:00,660 Year's resolutions. I know, it was very weird back, like, you 460 00:32:00,660 --> 00:32:05,970 know, pre COVID. But, um, like I had a mission to read more books 461 00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:08,520 to see. And I know, it's very vague. And I'm definitely 462 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:14,190 reading more books than I did the previous year. But I have 463 00:32:14,250 --> 00:32:17,700 like, I'm actually refinishing them. Can you believe I never 464 00:32:17,700 --> 00:32:22,350 used to finish books. But if you have goals for yourself, set 465 00:32:22,350 --> 00:32:25,950 aside time to achieve them. Whether it is like to be 466 00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:32,760 healthier or to like ferociously read more. allocate time to do 467 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,090 it. Because if you don't prioritize time and actually 468 00:32:36,090 --> 00:32:39,180 plan to do it, you will never get it done. Something else will 469 00:32:39,180 --> 00:32:42,390 always steal your time. It's usually work. 470 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:43,620 Nicolas Blank: Yeah. 471 00:32:45,730 --> 00:32:50,560 Anna Chu: Still still more of a time than any email? Yeah, 472 00:32:50,590 --> 00:32:51,070 email, 473 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:57,880 Warren du Toit: emails, terrible emails thing for me. Yeah, email 474 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,220 is one thing I'm always behind. I know what 475 00:33:02,020 --> 00:33:05,110 Anna Chu: I turned off my email notifications. And I've done 476 00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:09,400 that for the last five years, and I've never looked back. 477 00:33:10,300 --> 00:33:13,870 Like, it doesn't make a difference. You don't? Like, 478 00:33:14,350 --> 00:33:17,770 what's the point? What's the, like, you're also setting bad 479 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,850 examples if you are responding immediately. Right. 480 00:33:21,910 --> 00:33:24,340 Warren du Toit: Like for sure. It's a very good point. 481 00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:30,520 Anna Chu: Yeah, yeah, like 4am in the morning. 1am in the 482 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,430 morning, what are some ridiculous out like you also 483 00:33:33,460 --> 00:33:36,490 causing anxiety, other personnel around who thinks Oh, shit, 484 00:33:36,490 --> 00:33:38,530 like, I shouldn't be doing this? I should be responding. I should 485 00:33:38,530 --> 00:33:43,660 be working. No, no. I think we all have a responsibility to 486 00:33:43,690 --> 00:33:48,160 drive better work life balance to everybody. And sadly, you 487 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,820 know, if you're causing work for someone, you are causing someone 488 00:33:51,820 --> 00:33:53,140 else's anxiety, too. So 489 00:33:55,540 --> 00:33:58,900 Nicolas Blank: Wow. I think this has been the deepest show that 490 00:33:58,900 --> 00:33:59,830 we've done for a while. 491 00:34:01,630 --> 00:34:03,130 Anna Chu: Hey, why don't we 492 00:34:05,470 --> 00:34:07,270 Warren du Toit: take away a whole bunch of things? Yes. 493 00:34:07,270 --> 00:34:09,670 Like, do not email me tweet it. 494 00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:14,890 Anna Chu: And I will respond to when I want to when I wake up 495 00:34:16,930 --> 00:34:20,050 set notifications on my Twitter either because it was a point 496 00:34:20,050 --> 00:34:24,370 where I'm like, I'm getting inundated. I do not want to like 497 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,840 be like a squirrel and just like, just Sure. Attention to 498 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,120 like the latest thing someone tweeted at me. I don't need 499 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,340 that. I'm, like away. 500 00:34:34,630 --> 00:34:36,550 Warren du Toit: Which I guess is another question that we could 501 00:34:36,580 --> 00:34:39,460 we could probably pose since we're on this subject is the 502 00:34:39,460 --> 00:34:44,830 subject of social media. Oh, yeah. And has has the social 503 00:34:44,830 --> 00:34:50,020 media effect changed? Because, and obviously, in some ways, 504 00:34:50,020 --> 00:34:52,600 it's the only way that you can communicate with those peers or 505 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:57,850 those people that you would see, but have people become more 506 00:34:57,850 --> 00:35:03,310 liberal now. And Is it like, every single morning somebody 507 00:35:03,310 --> 00:35:07,090 wakes up and they post a photo of something that they would 508 00:35:07,090 --> 00:35:12,130 have never had done post? I mean, previous before code. So 509 00:35:12,130 --> 00:35:15,370 like, you know, they would get to the office and then they tell 510 00:35:15,370 --> 00:35:18,550 somebody about it. But now that they're not going to the office, 511 00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:22,240 they're telling the whole world about it. And then it says, Have 512 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:26,110 you noticed there's been like a slight shift in who's posting 513 00:35:26,110 --> 00:35:31,060 what and why they're posting it. And I posted this, I think, to 514 00:35:31,060 --> 00:35:34,450 be perfectly honest with you and become a bit of a sort of like a 515 00:35:34,450 --> 00:35:40,810 social media hermit moment. And I don't like a completely. I'm 516 00:35:40,810 --> 00:35:46,600 not sure why. Yeah, social media butterfly in the family, not me. 517 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,530 But um, have you noticed a change in what you want? I 518 00:35:50,530 --> 00:35:50,980 guess, 519 00:35:51,610 --> 00:35:55,030 Anna Chu: I, I've noticed the chain, I there's, I've noticed a 520 00:35:55,030 --> 00:35:57,970 lot of different things a lot. I've noticed people take and 521 00:35:58,090 --> 00:36:01,480 delete Facebook. One, I've noticed people just completely 522 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,480 like, go on that end of the spectrum. And that may be 523 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,780 because of, you know, that recent documentary on Netflix. 524 00:36:08,770 --> 00:36:13,330 This dilemma, I'll highly recommend people watch. It. I've 525 00:36:13,330 --> 00:36:19,630 also seen Yes, on the other end people post more. I go in waves 526 00:36:19,630 --> 00:36:26,800 between posting a lot or posting less. I, I've noticed that, you 527 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,700 know, people just miss people and interactions. And yes, 528 00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:34,450 you're right. It's a little, like hanging out in the in the 529 00:36:34,990 --> 00:36:39,640 office, like cafeteria or in the kitchen. You know, like, there's 530 00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:42,970 like, that's just completely pure randomness as someone else 531 00:36:42,970 --> 00:36:46,510 walks in while you're making a cup of tea. And then you have a 532 00:36:46,510 --> 00:36:52,360 chance to do them, right. Um, but I've also been like, you 533 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,780 know what, I'm just going to, like, post a selfie of myself 534 00:36:55,810 --> 00:36:59,440 with my morning cup of coffee. And hopefully that, you know, 535 00:36:59,650 --> 00:37:02,110 and I'm trying to send some positive vibes out there. So 536 00:37:02,140 --> 00:37:06,760 people have a great morning, you know, like, and I have no idea. 537 00:37:08,140 --> 00:37:12,340 But I'm glad you do. Someone might roll their eyes and Gosh, 538 00:37:12,340 --> 00:37:18,370 like, geez, but that's fine. That's fine. I couldn't meet me. 539 00:37:18,430 --> 00:37:22,690 I want like, I'm not doing it incessantly. I'm just like, Hey, 540 00:37:22,690 --> 00:37:27,040 I just want to stay alert to people and see how everyone's 541 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:32,830 doing because I miss everyone you know? So yeah, I like it's 542 00:37:32,830 --> 00:37:37,000 really hard. I definitely feel like there's a bit of there's 543 00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:39,040 there are people who are opting out and there are people who are 544 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,610 like all in I'm going to be all social and I'm going to share 545 00:37:42,610 --> 00:37:46,480 all my like, you know, thoughts onto the internet which can be 546 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:46,990 dangerous. 547 00:37:48,460 --> 00:37:52,480 Warren du Toit: Dangerous, so dangerous. Let's delete that. 548 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,590 But the damage is done, right? Yeah, yeah. damages. I mean, 549 00:37:56,590 --> 00:37:59,770 there are some people that cannot show their faces. Like 550 00:37:59,830 --> 00:38:04,360 around anyway. We've had the kind of no it happens 551 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,450 everywhere. I guess really. But we've had like, a couple of 552 00:38:07,450 --> 00:38:13,510 social media influencers stars or TV personalities that just 553 00:38:14,530 --> 00:38:17,620 some problems they get some somebody posts something bad on 554 00:38:17,620 --> 00:38:21,040 tik tok. They are gone. Oh, yeah. 555 00:38:23,020 --> 00:38:26,680 Anna Chu: Oh, gosh. Yeah. There's been so many warnings 556 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:31,360 from 2020. Oh, like it has been the volumes in turn up to 13. I 557 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,810 tell you what, like, there's been a lot of things that I've 558 00:38:34,810 --> 00:38:37,990 learned Personally, I feel like this, which has been a reckoning 559 00:38:37,990 --> 00:38:44,380 on many, many things. And yes, it was probably the, the 560 00:38:44,380 --> 00:38:49,690 medicine we all needed to take. But you know, I have like I'm 561 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,270 Look, I'm hopeful that we're going to come out the other end 562 00:38:52,270 --> 00:38:57,520 is all more enlightened individuals, enlightened humans 563 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,810 who have a better appreciation of community, have a have 564 00:39:01,810 --> 00:39:08,440 exercise deeper empathy is one thing that I have spent the last 565 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:13,510 two weeks doing is a lot of introspection. I was watching a 566 00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:18,190 session delivered by Malcolm Gladwell is a journalist. He's 567 00:39:18,190 --> 00:39:25,660 Canadian, American, many things. And he had a very, very 568 00:39:25,660 --> 00:39:30,190 interesting take on deep empathy. In terms of, you know, 569 00:39:30,220 --> 00:39:33,370 you don't really like when I was taught in school, what empathy 570 00:39:33,370 --> 00:39:37,300 was. They translated that as being able to walk a mile in 571 00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:42,490 someone's shoes. But the problem with that is that I'm imagining 572 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,480 what it's like to walk in worn shoes on Nicholas's shoe. If I 573 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,900 haven't actually sat down to speak to you individually 574 00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:52,960 understand your points of view, your perspectives, your 575 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:58,300 experiences, your influences. I do not really understand you 576 00:39:58,300 --> 00:40:01,870 deeply. Right. And I think Especially given the current 577 00:40:01,870 --> 00:40:05,320 climate and what's going to happen next week with the US 578 00:40:05,350 --> 00:40:08,350 election, it is even more important to exercise that and 579 00:40:08,530 --> 00:40:14,140 put your biases aside, right? And so next time you see that 580 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:19,150 what you perceive as a crazy Facebook post or social media 581 00:40:19,420 --> 00:40:23,320 post, have a think about that person and you may not have a 582 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,220 full understanding as to why they did that, that they may be 583 00:40:27,220 --> 00:40:31,510 having a mental breakdown. We're all under massive amounts of 584 00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:34,870 stress. And we're not very good at expressing it or maybe too 585 00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:41,140 good at expressing. You know, I think if we have all exercise 586 00:40:41,140 --> 00:40:44,620 that well and being a bit more perceptive, I think we're all 587 00:40:44,620 --> 00:40:48,160 going to come out of this the other end that a human being so 588 00:40:49,270 --> 00:40:52,180 you're right Nicholas's has been the most deep episode you'll 589 00:40:52,180 --> 00:40:54,070 ever have on the cloud pockets, fix it 590 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,530 Nicolas Blank: book. Yeah, yeah. But I think it's, it's necessary 591 00:40:58,530 --> 00:41:02,730 because I shows not just about technology, it's about the 592 00:41:02,730 --> 00:41:08,010 people in it. And we, we desperately need each other. And 593 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,490 I've been looking at my Facebook feed, and especially my American 594 00:41:11,490 --> 00:41:18,480 friends. And I've seen things that I've, as a non American 595 00:41:18,510 --> 00:41:21,960 I've looked at, and I see such depth of emotion on so many 596 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,170 topics, and especially the politically charged ones and 597 00:41:25,530 --> 00:41:32,730 direct challenges to unfriend me if you don't like this and and I 598 00:41:32,730 --> 00:41:38,460 just think that is, there's so much space available that we 599 00:41:38,460 --> 00:41:44,040 need to give, in terms of this empathy topic, we need to figure 600 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:49,620 out how, how do I how do I support a person? Or how do I 601 00:41:49,620 --> 00:41:54,480 just let them be when things are difficult, and other expressing 602 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,240 things on a political topic, and they've got left to deal with 603 00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:03,690 and family and, and work? And it's, it's not an easy world at 604 00:42:03,690 --> 00:42:05,130 the moment in COVID? 605 00:42:06,470 --> 00:42:12,050 Anna Chu: It's not Yeah. It's brought a lot of things to the 606 00:42:12,050 --> 00:42:16,610 fore. I mean, like, while learning, I feel like I've 607 00:42:16,610 --> 00:42:22,040 learned a lot about people's challenges, like some people, 608 00:42:22,130 --> 00:42:25,310 I've learned about people's health issues, physical health 609 00:42:25,310 --> 00:42:30,020 issues, people have come out and talked about, you know, that 610 00:42:30,020 --> 00:42:37,940 they have bipolar, or ADHD. And I'm also learning that, you 611 00:42:37,940 --> 00:42:42,230 know, for some people, they really don't want to be fully 612 00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:49,640 transparent about their sexuality, or, you know, the 613 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,090 gender that they most associate themselves with. That is totally 614 00:42:53,090 --> 00:42:58,670 their call. It's just, it's, it's really opened my eyes this 615 00:42:58,670 --> 00:43:03,530 year. And maybe I knew about this stuff, I just didn't delve 616 00:43:03,530 --> 00:43:08,240 deeper into it. But this year, I'm definitely much more in 617 00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:14,150 sharing with people and not like me, and nor should they be. And 618 00:43:14,150 --> 00:43:20,870 I should seek, like, seek to be super curious about it. But only 619 00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:25,520 with that mission to write. Like, I don't want to look at 620 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,790 people like as museum artifacts, I want to look at people as 621 00:43:28,790 --> 00:43:34,130 human beings, and just so I can have better relationships with 622 00:43:34,130 --> 00:43:36,200 them, you know? So, yeah, 623 00:43:36,230 --> 00:43:40,340 Nicolas Blank: so let me try and condense that and ask you to 624 00:43:40,730 --> 00:43:45,080 summarize that into and it doesn't matter how many there 625 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:51,860 are, it's a top 1235 skills. What do you think, as people in 626 00:43:51,860 --> 00:43:57,050 the professions that we are in being technology focused, being 627 00:43:57,050 --> 00:44:00,350 people focused? What are the skills that we need right now? 628 00:44:00,770 --> 00:44:03,380 And if we don't have those skills, how do we build those 629 00:44:03,380 --> 00:44:03,830 skills? 630 00:44:05,490 --> 00:44:09,120 Anna Chu: I think a skill that everyone needs to work on is 631 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:14,370 self awareness. I think that underpins a lot of things, self 632 00:44:14,370 --> 00:44:21,000 awareness, because it is you are in control of of yourself. 633 00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:25,200 Right? But are you aware of how you're, what you're doing 634 00:44:25,260 --> 00:44:29,280 affects other people? Like, even the whole, you know, responding 635 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:34,110 to email at midnight, is, is that you need to be aware of how 636 00:44:34,110 --> 00:44:36,930 that action is impacting the person on the other end of the 637 00:44:36,930 --> 00:44:42,750 email, right? Same goes for your posts on social media. It might 638 00:44:42,750 --> 00:44:48,750 be just you venting the how's it making other people feel? It's 639 00:44:48,750 --> 00:44:53,040 also like how do you spend your time if your family or your 640 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,690 colleagues see burning the midnight oil? Is that is that a 641 00:44:57,690 --> 00:45:00,780 good example you're setting for your kids or for you colleagues 642 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,510 and that kind of goes back to empathy a little bit too, 643 00:45:06,510 --> 00:45:12,480 because people need to like it. It's a self awareness in terms 644 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,860 of how your, your actions and your words impacting others, but 645 00:45:16,890 --> 00:45:20,010 but also deeply understanding the other end, like who is this 646 00:45:20,010 --> 00:45:25,080 person and how my actions impacting them. So, yeah, 647 00:45:26,370 --> 00:45:29,700 Nicolas Blank: that's stunning. The speaking of empathy, we want 648 00:45:29,700 --> 00:45:32,820 to respect your time. Getting to the Thai LAO, 649 00:45:32,850 --> 00:45:36,120 Warren du Toit: look at that. Hey, geez. Yeah, really quickly. 650 00:45:36,390 --> 00:45:41,670 A really good Yes. Yeah. I really missed you guys. For 651 00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:44,280 ages. Oh, we missed you, too. Oh, 652 00:45:44,750 --> 00:45:48,050 Anna Chu: it's just hard right now, sir. I hope you're all 653 00:45:48,050 --> 00:45:52,100 staying well and staying healthy. And, you know, drawing 654 00:45:52,100 --> 00:45:55,460 your boundaries, if he goes to take one piece of homework away 655 00:45:55,460 --> 00:45:59,450 from this is to, you know, line your boundary so that you can 656 00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:03,500 better respect your time and in turn respect thistime 657 00:46:03,650 --> 00:46:09,200 Warren du Toit: reject the meetings man, Chelsea? No. No, 658 00:46:09,260 --> 00:46:12,500 no, no meetings are allowed to recruit more than three times. 659 00:46:13,610 --> 00:46:14,210 Yeah. 660 00:46:15,590 --> 00:46:19,100 Anna Chu: That's tough when way in planning parties or events. 661 00:46:19,130 --> 00:46:23,900 But I think I should take that principle put a little Asterix 662 00:46:23,900 --> 00:46:29,060 on it. Like some exceptions apply. Yeah, no, you're right. 663 00:46:29,090 --> 00:46:29,660 You're right. 664 00:46:30,890 --> 00:46:33,380 Nicolas Blank: We have loved this format. And we'd love to 665 00:46:33,380 --> 00:46:40,280 have you on again, as a co host. And you you are part of the 666 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,180 furniture now. So we're going to have to have you on as host and 667 00:46:44,540 --> 00:46:48,710 get you to grill someone with us and, and and be proud of the 668 00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:49,040 show. 669 00:46:49,790 --> 00:46:53,720 Anna Chu: What I always love talking to you guys, and I hope 670 00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:57,530 everyone who listens to podcasts got something out of today. So 671 00:46:58,820 --> 00:46:59,720 thank you. 672 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,060 Warren du Toit: I think they definitely did. Thanks, 673 00:47:04,220 --> 00:47:07,670 everyone. Before you go, we just wanted to say thank you for 674 00:47:07,670 --> 00:47:10,280 listening. We really enjoyed putting this podcast together 675 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,490 for you every two weeks, please visit us at the architects 676 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,730 cloud. Alternatively, drop us a tweet. We'd love to hear what 677 00:47:16,730 --> 00:47:18,380 you have to say @TheCloudArch.